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| Engine and Gear box Mounts! https://bellett.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=610 |
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| Author: | 1968GT [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Engine and Gear box Mounts! |
Anyone know where we can obtain new or recon'd engine and gear box rubber mounts please? Not an urgent issue as yet, however reading an article on classic cars the other day, they suggest replacing them early to improve quietness and smoothness of any car. I would be interested if anyone knows where they could be recoed?? |
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| Author: | JT191 [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! |
OK, I'm preoccupied with non-Bellett cars for the time being and have sort of pushed the brakeless wonder aside until I have gathered a big stack of brake parts to put on it, so I'll ask some questions. The less than exhaustive book shows the transmission mount is round and installed in a cylindrical casting in the bottom of the transmission. Is the size the same on all of the Belletts? I was unable to find any illustration of the engine mounts. For an older RWD car, these are usually a big rectangular shaped piece of rubber with mounting studs sticking out of the top and bottom. Are the Bellett engine mounts the same? It would be too fortunate if they were also round like more modern FWD mounts... This is the type of thing I would rather have a spare from a salvage yard car to dissect. Cut up the worst one, keep the better one, and if I fail or don't like the results I can switch back to the original. I saw all those suspension arm auctions elapse and winced at the missed opportunity. I am not far enough along past brakes to know what is unusable and I really wanted to get the thing back to close to original spec before tearing things up and re-engineering the whole thing. So I am a little reluctant to start cutting things up. |
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| Author: | PR91 [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! |
JT191 wrote: The less than exhaustive book shows the transmission mount is round and installed in a cylindrical casting in the bottom of the transmission. Is the size the same on all of the Belletts? Those gearbox mounts were only on the very early cars. Over my 20-odd years of playing with quite a few cars, I've only ever seen 1 of these "round" mounts in use, so they are rare now. Most Belletts have a "top plate and bottom plate with rubber in-between" type of gearbox mount that is a similar idea to the engine mounts. read on... JT191 wrote: I was unable to find any illustration of the engine mounts. For an older RWD car, these are usually a big rectangular shaped piece of rubber with mounting studs sticking out of the top and bottom. Are the Bellett engine mounts the same? Put simply... yes, except they have 2 studs at the top, and 2 hole at the bottom for the bolts to go into the crossmember. JT191 wrote: This is the type of thing I would rather have a spare from a salvage yard car to dissect. Cut up the worst one, keep the better one, and if I fail or don't like the results I can switch back to the original. I saw all those suspension arm auctions elapse and winced at the missed opportunity. I am not far enough along past brakes to know what is unusable and I really wanted to get the thing back to close to original spec before tearing things up and re-engineering the whole thing. So I am a little reluctant to start cutting things up. Try looking at the Chev Luv/Isuzu KB20 engine mounts. From memory, they are very similar to the Bellett ones. I think I have these Luv/KB ones in my Wasp, and they were a bolt in fit. (I write think as it's been 15 years since it went on the road, and little details like this aren't the easiest to remember.) |
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| Author: | JT191 [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! |
PR91 wrote: Most Belletts have a "top plate and bottom plate with rubber in-between" type of gearbox mount that is a similar idea to the engine mounts. read on... they have 2 studs at the top, and 2 hole at the bottom for the bolts to go into the crossmember. Try looking at the Chev Luv/Isuzu KB20 engine mounts. From memory, they are very similar to the Bellett ones. I think I have these Luv/KB ones in my Wasp, and they were a bolt in fit. (I write think as it's been 15 years since it went on the road, and little details like this aren't the easiest to remember.) OK, the good news is that with block style mounts, I don't have to have a sample bracket (transmission end with the mount cast into it) to measure the diameter to the thousandth of an inch before making new ones and go through test fitting after. Based on the description, I am looking at rectangular rubber blocks with a metal plate bonded to the top and bottom, studs on one side and threaded holes on the other. No way of telling if there is some kind metal of safety loop cast into the rubber block to keep it from separating if the rubber breaks... Does anyone have an old, possibly broken set to sell? I would need exterior dimensions, especially how thick they are supposed to be when new. Also, a durometer measurement of hardness. I've been concentrating on racing mounts, very hard, and vibration is not really a concern. That will not be the case for the Bellett, and they will have to be softer. |
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| Author: | JT191 [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:13 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! | ||
Chevy Luvs start with 1972, maybe later than the KB design. This is only allowing one image attachment per post. This is the Luv transmission mount.
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| Author: | JT191 [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:14 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! | ||
And the Luv motor mount.
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| Author: | 1968GT [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! |
Brett, your idea I will try, I had not thought of the KB ute mounts. Surely the gear box mounts would be different due to the ute having a 5 speed box? If the engine mounts from the KB ute fitted your Wasp, they should surely fit the Bellett, or you would think so? I don't remember seeing the gear box mount so JT191 I am not sure if that would fit or not, do have any idea there Brett? Dave M. |
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| Author: | PR91 [ Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! |
Those engine mounts posted by JT are the ones I used on the Wasp. Looking at them now, they are slightly different to a Bellett one, but nothing a small trim and a new mounting hole can't fix. In that pic, the "loop" of steel and the "tab" under it aren't on a Bellett mount, so they could be removed. Also, from memory, the holes in the Luv mount were too wide for a Bellett. The hole at the foreground of the pic will line up, but the other hole doesn't, requiring a new hole to be drilled and the extra steel on the plate to be removed as well. The gearbox mount looks very, very Bellett. The only difference I can see is that a Bellett doesn't have the extra "tab" that is on that mount in the foreground of that pic. Again, a quick removal is in order. Dave, as for the 5 speed question... They actually mount the same. My Wasp has a DOHC 5 speed and uses a Bellett box mount on the Wasp chassis, and my race sedan has a Gemini 5 speed and uses a Bellett mount as well. Mr Isuzu kindly made the later box's so that a Bellett mount would bolt straight to a DOHC/Gemini box, even though the DOHC/Gemini mount looks totally different to the Bellett one. Hope this helps mate! Also, while I'm working from memory here, please just check the mounts and dimensions if you're going to spend money on them, as I'd hate to think money has been wasted if they don't work out. Let me know how you get on. Cheers. Brett. |
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| Author: | 1968GT [ Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! |
I have checked with Repco, i all their parts books we could not find a listing for the KB20 ute, inclding the Mackay Rubber parts book. Not sure where to go now, I have an outlet in NSW that we found an original top gasket kit I will try them because they had a lot of older spares. Anybody with ant further suggestions please,I am listening. |
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| Author: | PR91 [ Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! |
dave, i'd try googling it in the u.s. they sold thousands of chev luvs over there, so it might be an import proposition. only prob here is that if you want to actually see them first (like you could if repco's or the like had them), it's a virtual impossibility... hope you have some luck with it. cheers. brett. |
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| Author: | 2ldohc [ Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! |
Looks like they are readily available from the States: http://www.partstrain.com/ShopByDepartment/Engine_Mount/CHEVROLET/LUV http://www.familycar.com/store/?Ntt=chevrolet+luv+engine+mount&oes=true Hope that helps point you in the right direction... if those mounts are the right ones! Cheers, R. |
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| Author: | JT191 [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! |
1968GT wrote: Anybody with ant further suggestions please,I am listening. From Brett's previous comments, it sounded like the consensus was to use the KB/LUV mounts. The pictures I posted were from a website called rockauto.com. Their website says they ship international. They show those mounts very inexpensive (for what they have in stock anyway, as soon as they run out they will probably raise the price). Look under 1974 model year, they start with the engine mounts for that year. I have no idea on the quality of these. There are aftermarket parts in the US that are better than original, and there are others that are extremely poor quality. It's a gamble, and for the price of the LUV mounts, not an expensive gamble. The stuff I build will outlive the car by decades, but the truck mounts are a fraction of what I could make them for. I'll wait until I know I need some or get farther along and need an entertaining project. I suspect suspension bushings are going to be more immediate on my list. |
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| Author: | 1968GT [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! |
I have checked with Repco (Mackay Rubber) no luck and their parts book does not list a part number. I would like to have a closer look at the ones in the photos, they look similar except for the bar around one end, as you say that could be removed if necessary. I think this is going to be difficult, however I am going to try an Isuzu truck outlet and see what they have listed, IS IT POSSBILE GMH STILL HAVE STOCK?? After all I only want 2, I guess more of you out there would some as well???? |
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| Author: | crownsixfour [ Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! |
i had shagged engine mounts on my bellett and the closest match i could find at u pull it was gemini mounts, from memory they were very similar to the picture of the luv mounts i cut off the tabs and re drilled the holes on the engine and crossmember, i think the bellett mount only had 1 bolt on each side? and the gem has 2 each side but i was relativly easy to do. also another tip is to make up an engine mount cover out of some thin sheet steel to keep oil off the rubbers as they don't last to long when exposed to oil |
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| Author: | 1968GT [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! |
Heys Guys, Brett, Ross and JT191, I have seen the Luv mounts, Thank you Ross. Would you have to cut off those extra lugs? (I.E. do they get in the way) Do the bolt and bolt holes line up? I am far from a mechanic and don't like having to "muckaround" a lot to fix thgis, they would be spares as I don't think I have a problem at the moment, however I want ot be prepared. Last year on my way back to Mudgee from Motofest, my light switch broke and I did not have a spare, result was driving the last 40 klms in Pitch black dark, NOT EVEN A MOON, using my blinkers to see where the road was, VERY INTERESTING!! DM. |
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| Author: | PR91 [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! |
gday dave. sorry mate, have only just seen your post. at a guess, i'd say u wouldn't have to cut the loop and tab off, as there's a bit of room there in a Bellett engine bay, but personally, i would remove them. it'd only be a case of a quick hacksaw cut or 2 anyway. my GT is slightly modified here and there, so it wouldn't be a real "originality" concern for me, but on a GT as beautiful as yours, especially being restored as close to original as it is, i think they'd look far better being an "original" looking mount. as for the holes....?? i honestly don't know, as when i had a look at my Wasp again, the mounts i have used are very similar to those, but not exact. the pic looks like they are very close to a Bellett one (if the loop and tab wasn't there), but having said that, the holes on a Wasp chassis are further apart than on a Bellett crossmember, and as they are listed for a Luv, they might need triming and a new hole drilled as well. the hole that's visible in the pic looks like it would line up, but the Luv mounts i used in my Wasp had one side that was wider than the other when measured from the rubber block, and the hole was out further as a result. of course, this is on the other side of the mount that's in the pic, and while it too is visible, the angle of the pic makes it hard to tell the distance between the rubber and the hole for sure......... again, sorry, without a look at one, it's just difficult to tell. and i know where you're coming from with the headlight dramas. i had the end fall of a fuse 1 night, and had to do the indicator thing as well. not fun at all, even more so when it's a dark, melbourne winter night! cheers. |
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| Author: | 1968GT [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! |
Thank you Brett. they are not expensive, so maybe I purchase 1 and see if it all matches up, and yes you could take off those loops, however heat might be a problem if you use a angle grinder, so yes a hack saw would be the better option. I will let you know when I have time, how I go for everyones benefit. I have acquired however a coupls of old good condition engine mounts which will get me out of trouble if anything happens mean time. After Motofest, driving the GT back to Mudgee today, it is going really well. All the best Dave. |
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| Author: | RobSA [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! |
I know the search function in most forums is dubious at the best, So here is the result of my search for engine mounts ... Many thanx to A.J. for this info, If you want engine mounts contact Tony, he can make the metal part but it is better if you send him the old mounts to refurbish. viewtopic.php?f=36&t=57 Cheers Rob |
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| Author: | bellett65 [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:14 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! | ||
I am about to make you all puke. I have just bought a gearbox mount in NSW $68 including postage. With all the parts I have that was the one I did not have. i had even forgotten what the looked like so I had to email Brett to see if that looked the part. They also have a few other bits. Like some door skins. Peter PS: part number is 8942266800. The centres on studs 75mm holes 130mm
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| Author: | gt orphanage [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine and Gear box Mounts! |
I picked up a set of kb20 engine mounts in brisbane today there are gearbox available as well. The engine mount will need to be drilled as 1 hole is spaced further out but there is enough plate to replicate the original bellett. 4 inch angle grinder with a thin cutting disc and a bucket of water should be a buzz 
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