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Diff info wanted HELP 
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Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 2:23 am
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Location: Melb.
Car(s): '72 Sport Bellett (imported 180912), had Belletts in past, 2 sed, 3 GT's. M/B A250 Sport, i30
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I have a problem with the diff in my Sport. Its making very loud noises on over run and I am told it's probably crown wheel and pinion issue. (the front pinion seal was replaced 2 year back and its been dripping oil still, and it would seem lost more than anticipated)

I have a guy lined up to have a look at it and reco it. New bearings etc. If he can get them.

First I have to remove it and its 20+ years since i did this. I THINK I can remove the whole diff assembly without having to remove axles? Ie just unbolt everything and drop it down. (on my own at this stage.)

So, can i just un bolt and drop it?

Anybody have a good, spare crown wheel and pinion to swap into it ?

Otherwise I can't make it to Nats this year.

glenn

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'72 PR60 Sport


Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:27 am
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:37 am
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Car(s): BELLETT SEDANS X 3
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Yes Glenn, you can unbolt it and drop it out, just make sure you use a trolley jack to lower it slowly whilst gently jiggling it about, if you would like some help maybe this weekend give me a call, happy to help you out. Cheers Steve


Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:31 am
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Location: Kallangur, Brisbane QLD
Car(s): 3x1965 PR20(Donkey, Jenny n Bundy) 1 1969 PR20(Percy) 2 1968 PR20(Eugine n GT Donor) 1 1968 PR91 GT, 1 1965 Wasp
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I have 2 parts sedans (manuals) that I could scavenge one out of for you but I have no idea of their condition ???
I could drop one out and have couriered down for you. Would be 2 weeks before I could get to them though to pull out though.

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Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:35 am
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Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 2:23 am
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Location: Melb.
Car(s): '72 Sport Bellett (imported 180912), had Belletts in past, 2 sed, 3 GT's. M/B A250 Sport, i30
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Stickman wrote:
I have 2 parts sedans (manuals) that I could scavenge one out of for you but I have no idea of their condition ???
I could drop one out and have couriered down for you. Would be 2 weeks before I could get to them though to pull out though.


many thanks for the offer. Really appreciate it. 1st I will get it out and get it to the repair guy for an opinion on whats wrong.

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'72 PR60 Sport


Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:38 am
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Location: Kallangur, Brisbane QLD
Car(s): 3x1965 PR20(Donkey, Jenny n Bundy) 1 1969 PR20(Percy) 2 1968 PR20(Eugine n GT Donor) 1 1968 PR91 GT, 1 1965 Wasp
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Glenn wrote:
Stickman wrote:
I have 2 parts sedans (manuals) that I could scavenge one out of for you but I have no idea of their condition ???
I could drop one out and have couriered down for you. Would be 2 weeks before I could get to them though to pull out though.


many thanks for the offer. Really appreciate it. 1st I will get it out and get it to the repair guy for an opinion on whats wrong.


No worries, just say the word if ya need one

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Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:40 am
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Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:04 am
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Location: Gladstone Queenland
Car(s): '70 PR91,'69 PR20 x 2,'66 PR20,'65? KR20's x 2,'66 ? PR90,2012 d22 STR Navarra.
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Hi Glenn.
I had the convertibe diff done up a few years ago. Procuring the side carrier bearings was an issue. Took them nearly 2 months to locate some and finish the job.
If it comes to the crunch and things don't work out, take Sticky's offer or you may have a loan of the convertibles diff. It's not in use. Just laying around waiting for me to get to it and paint the crossmember. No hurry for it to be returned. 8-) Pm me if you wont to have a chat.
Like Steve has advised. Pretty easy to get out. The 2 mounts at the front on the pinion support bracket and the big bolt at the back. Suggest doing the front mounts first. And then the back one. You may have to have something under the 2 wheels so as there is no pressure on the axle uni. drive flanges. Creates a larger gap to slip the diff down. ;)
Have you greased the rear axle bearings since you bought it. :?: Dry bearing giving you a noise transfer to the diff.

Dave.

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Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:06 pm
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Location: Rye Park, N.S.W.
Car(s): Doris, Aunty Mary, Shrek, Jimmy; GT, Wasp, Florian & Sed unrestos; 65 Elf; worn 02 Forester; 07 Santa Fe diesel.
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CQGT wrote:
Have you greased the rear axle bearings since you bought it. :?: Dry bearing giving you a noise transfer to the diff.

Dave.


Thats a good point mate. The sound in my experience is more of a rumble than a whine though, in my experience.
Those grease nippled bearing housings are great, why doesn't every car have them? Already replaced both sides on the Forester, and its only got 430,000ks on it.
Cheers, Matt.

Also, I have a few spare diffs of unknown condition, but also a centre thats been removed by someone. Would he have done that because it was worn, or good to save? :? Anyway, yours if you need it and smaller to post.

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Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:00 pm
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Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 2:23 am
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Location: Melb.
Car(s): '72 Sport Bellett (imported 180912), had Belletts in past, 2 sed, 3 GT's. M/B A250 Sport, i30
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Hi
It would seem the problem is in the diff since it looks like it ran low on oil from a very tiny drip. It may have been a bit low when i got the car i am unsure, but when i had the front seal replaced, they told me the oil level was ok (and/or they topped it up) But the seal was still leaking it seems.

I was driving the Sport over to toomanybelletts to use his hoist to change the speedo cable and check diff oil level. There are some big hills on the way there (50k) and maybe going down a couple starved the gears of oil? The noise started just after i descended the 2nd hill. Which leads me to think its a diff issue. We changed the cable ok and topped up the oil of course hoping the noise would go away. It didn't.

The noise i am unsure of how to describe it, perhaps a rumble, very loud even at very low speeds on over run. Driving though with power on or cruise, silent. The guy I spoke to to fix it, reckons its the ring and pinion gears.
He also told me some bearings are hard to get, one is a wide type, very unusual. Alternate might be to use a more standard bearing and a spacer. Or i guess if the bearings seem ok, just leave them in but its probably better to replace anything that can be, while its in pieces and i assume guarantees.

Right now, Dean has offered to see if he has a spare diff he could send down. If not, will advise if your kind support is needed. Thanks.

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'72 PR60 Sport


Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:06 pm
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Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 2:23 am
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Location: Melb.
Car(s): '72 Sport Bellett (imported 180912), had Belletts in past, 2 sed, 3 GT's. M/B A250 Sport, i30
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CQGT wrote:
Hi Glenn.
I had the convertibe diff done up a few years ago. Procuring the side carrier bearings was an issue. Took them nearly 2 months to locate some and finish the job.
If it comes to the crunch and things don't work out, take Sticky's offer or you may have a loan of the convertibles diff. It's not in use. Just laying around waiting for me to get to it and paint the crossmember. No hurry for it to be returned. 8-) Pm me if you wont to have a chat.
Like Steve has advised. Pretty easy to get out. The 2 mounts at the front on the pinion support bracket and the big bolt at the back. Suggest doing the front mounts first. And then the back one. You may have to have something under the 2 wheels so as there is no pressure on the axle uni. drive flanges. Creates a larger gap to slip the diff down. ;)
Have you greased the rear axle bearings since you bought it. :?: Dry bearing giving you a noise transfer to the diff.

Dave.


I will have the car on ramps so hopefully that will work ?

No not greased them. I don't think later cars have the nipples..... will have to check. I think they were on top ?

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'72 PR60 Sport


Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:31 pm
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The diff in my GT screams its head off. Has ever since I built it..... But seeing as a "special guest" is driving it to the Nats this year, I'll change it.
Glenn, I've got a couple of spares at home if u need yo get out of a bind til yours is reco'd that you're welcome to borrow. I really don't like giving them away as good ones are bloody hard to find now, and noisy ones I keep ad spares for the race car.
The grease nipples on the wheel bearing blocks are underneath, hidden in near the drum backing plate. The breather is on the top. Also check to see if it has greasable unis on the axles and tailshaft.
The diff is an easy swap over. 4 bolts on the tailshaft, 4 on each axle, 2 on the handbrake mech, 2 nuts on the front bracket and 2 bolts on the rear bracket. From memory..... That's it.

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Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:20 am
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Oh, and a couple of bolts that hold the trans leaf in. Knew I missed something.

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Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:24 am
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Glenn.... Just thought. Your Sport has the late model rubber donut at the rear of the tailshaft instead of the normal uni. Will a "normal" diff bolt up to the shaft?
U mite need a normal Bellett tailshaft too if its different, or change the yoke?

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Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:29 am
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Location: Melb.
Car(s): '72 Sport Bellett (imported 180912), had Belletts in past, 2 sed, 3 GT's. M/B A250 Sport, i30
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PR91 wrote:
Glenn.... Just thought. Your Sport has the late model rubber donut at the rear of the tailshaft instead of the normal uni. Will a "normal" diff bolt up to the shaft?
U mite need a normal Bellett tailshaft too if its different, or change the yoke?

Hi Brett
thanks for the info and offer. It would appear my crown wheel and pinion is shot so i need them. A loan would get me out of a bind but then i have to do it all over again when mine is fixed.

Mine was never particuarly noisy before, only very slight whine and some vibration which i think is common around 90-100kph. I had thought the rubber donut idea would help the vibration but it appears not.

Mine has the donut and i have no idea if the diff flange is the same as a uni joint tail shaft. I would imagine so, and hope so!
Do i need to remove the transverse spring also to drop the diff out?
OK on the hub lube, will check that also.

glenn

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Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:05 am
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Suggestion
If you have your heart set on retaining your original diff then well and good otherwise fit the 'Loaner' and then return your rebuild diff to the donor as thanks and keep the 'loaner'
just a suggestion
Cheers
J

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Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:11 am
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Unbolt the leaf from the suspension arms and drop it out as one. Then swap it over to the other diff if u go that way and put it all back.
Is much easier than trying to do it on your back under it. Mind u..... I have a hoist these days, so no more lying on my back either.

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Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:15 am
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Location: Melb.
Car(s): '72 Sport Bellett (imported 180912), had Belletts in past, 2 sed, 3 GT's. M/B A250 Sport, i30
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Asroc66 wrote:
Suggestion
If you have your heart set on retaining your original diff then well and good otherwise fit the 'Loaner' and then return your rebuild diff to the donor as thanks and keep the 'loaner'
just a suggestion
Cheers
J

that's ok but i don't want to do it all twice really. The fact its a late model with rubber instead of a rear uni joint might or might not be an issue also.

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Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:22 am
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Car(s): '72 Sport Bellett (imported 180912), had Belletts in past, 2 sed, 3 GT's. M/B A250 Sport, i30
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PR91 wrote:
Unbolt the leaf from the suspension arms and drop it out as one. Then swap it over to the other diff if u go that way and put it all back.
Is much easier than trying to do it on your back under it. Mind u..... I have a hoist these days, so no more lying on my back either.


good idea Brett, will look at that also. Not sure though how much 'spring' is in this 4 leaf rear which might complicate it a bit. A hoist would be nice ! My old place with the Pit would be nice also... have to make do with ramps.

I just finished degreasing and pressure washing the whole area to make it cleaner to work on.


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'72 PR60 Sport
Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:24 am
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Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 2:23 am
Posts: 2416
Location: Melb.
Car(s): '72 Sport Bellett (imported 180912), had Belletts in past, 2 sed, 3 GT's. M/B A250 Sport, i30
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PR91 wrote:
The diff in my GT screams its head off. Has ever since I built it..... But seeing as a "special guest" is driving it to the Nats this year, I'll change it.
Glenn, I've got a couple of spares at home if u need yo get out of a bind til yours is reco'd that you're welcome to borrow. I really don't like giving them away as good ones are bloody hard to find now, and noisy ones I keep ad spares for the race car.
The grease nipples on the wheel bearing blocks are underneath, hidden in near the drum backing plate. The breather is on the top. Also check to see if it has greasable unis on the axles and tailshaft.
The diff is an easy swap over. 4 bolts on the tailshaft, 4 on each axle, 2 on the handbrake mech, 2 nuts on the front bracket and 2 bolts on the rear bracket. From memory..... That's it.


Brett, been under the car and it appears that i need to leave the diff front cross member in place as there are brake lines going thru it. So, i need to remove 4 bolts in behind the rear uni/rubber and pull the diff and yoke through the big hole in X member? Which means i think there is little room at the back to do it so i have to remove the spring also.?

edit, looks like the yoke won't pass through that hole so will have to be removed first....... i think there's a big nut holding it on

I jacked up the car on left side and turning the wheel you can hear lots of terrible noises like a gear with a tooth missing, feel to it


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Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:59 pm
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Well that's a totally different set up to normal as u don't need to a touch the brake lines in earlier cars....
I would strongly suggest against removing the yoke on the pinion shaft. It needs to be done up to some crazy amount of tension, but is also critical its done right for the pinion bearing and meshing on the crown wheel.
I'd be just undoing the brake pipes and rebleed them afterwards so u can remove it all as an assembly without stuffing something up.... And remember that if u removed all of the front of the diff, it then has to be reassembled in the car itself later.

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Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:58 am
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BTW the actual yoke on the front of the diff itself is the same as a normal one.
Its just the tailshaft that is different.

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Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:01 am
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