RobSA project Bella

[RobSA]

Oops ... okay I would need a grinding machine, a press and some 6075 or 6061 aluminum stock.
Needlessly to say I only have the aluminum.
I have edited the post to read adapter ... as I have an old style steering wheel with large center I wanted to make an adapter to suit the new style small center steering wheel bosses that everyone carries these days.

Cheers
Rob

[RobSA]

Well it has been awhile since the last update.
Moved house ... yet again !! : (

Still got somewhere to work, which helps greatly.
Well as I said before I was going to fit a XD/XE carby (like they do to Gemini's) to Bella.

Here is the adapter ready for me to go get the correct studs (I didn't have any in my store the right size).



Still have to find time to get the accelerator cable, but that's par for the course at the moment.

Cheers
Rob

PS. the adapter is thick enough to fit some nitrous nozzles, hmmmm

[PR91]

gday rob.
looks like u've been busy mate!

just a few tips i've learnt from playing with the 32/36 or 34 type weber carb on the bellett....
i've found that the some of the aftermarket adaptors have a machined "angle" from the carb face to the manifold face, and some don't. the ones that don't (and it looks like yours is the same) have the machined angle don't allow the carbs butterflies to open fully because they hit the adaptor, as the butterflies swing down a fair way below the carb face. i would be checking that very closely, as it's bad enuf if it doesn't open fully, but if a hard stab on the GO pedal makes the butterflies jam open against the adaptor............. hmmmmmmmmm...........
also, on 1 car i did this mod to, i cut the "bridge" between the 2 carb throat holes away, and i also did the same to the manifold itself (making the hole almost an oval). i found that it had better response at low-mid range revs, because the inlet mix flows better into the manifold itself than just having 2 small-ish holes to travel straight down through, and then having to make a tight turn in the bottom of the manifold.
i use a gemini carb's accelerator cable mount (the curved plate with the tunnel for the cable to sit in) on ours. it bolts straight on a weber butterfly shaft.
try a g-engined rodeo for an accelerator cable. they have the ends that will fit the carb, but u'll have to muck around with a cable mount for the pedal-end (but this is the same for any cable u fit, so is un-avoidable). as the engine bay in a rodeo is bigger than a bellett's the cable MIGHT be long enuf to fit, but a tape measure will confirm or deny.

for interest, i use a cable on all of my cars. ok, the race car and Wasp needed one each as part of making them run (due to the different engines in them), but the GT uses a cable on the original engine too. i reckon they are much better than 40-odd year old linkages, and give a better pedal fell than a linkage set up too.

hope this all helps, and good luck!
brett.

[RobSA]

Righto ... thanks Brett, have taken your advice. Not sure what you meant by angle!? I'm still using the original carb phenolic spacer so the butterflies can't reach the adapter.

Carb adapter finished, accelerator cable made and fitted, modified some valiant parts I had in my parts bin.
Working on aircleaner and wiring at the moment.




Will post a picture of fitted carb later. The ones I took were a little bit out of focus
Edited to add photo of installed Weber 34ADM.



Cheers
Rob

Note: I turned the engine over to prime the carb with fuel to check for leaks .. Bella STARTED !!!!
That's not supposed to happen surely, carburetor that has been sitting in shed for 4-5 years, covered in red dust, no leaks and starts without any questions !!???
Well, the idle circuit wasn't connected and choke was fully closed, ie VERY RICH !!
When I got the power hooked up to the solenoids it still ran, very fast ... lots of air, lots and lots of fuel. Will definitely need to re-jet idle and main circuits.
Idle mixture and speed adjusted so she idles around 900rpm (just cannot get it any lower with that much fuel going in).

Initial comparison, accelerator pump works (old carb had none) revs very cleanly (even with that much fuel) to an indicated 6000rpm.

[RobSA]

Okay update time.

Air cleaner pan has been modified and now air cleaner fits without hitting the oil filler. Likewise the rocker cover and battery !!
I won't offend anyone with a photo of the inside and the crap fabrication that I had to do to move the carb mounting across.


Still got to finish the snorkel so it clears the bonnet at the front but otherwise fits okay.
*Update snorkel finished*
Also fitted up the crankcase ventilation.

Cheers
Rob

Anybody know if I need to fit a PCV valve into the line between the aircleaner and canister or is it only necessary if the PCV is plumbed into the manifold, thanks.

[oz_toffa]

It is looking very nice and neat Robert. Cant wait to fit up one the the Grey Ghost...

[RobSA]

Well do you want the good news or the bad news ?

Okay the good news.
Soldered up the jets, redrilled the main idle to 0.50mm, and the main primary to 1.10mm.
Swapped the original 1.40mm primary main into the secondary main (it had a 2.10mm, told you it was running rich!).
Runs cleanly up to an indicated 6000 RPM, no soot out the back at idle after warming up and choke fully off.

Now the bad news, well sort of.
Soldering the idle jet wasn't that good and I think even though I've tried to clean the end up I think fuel may be getting past and the idle is still a bit too rich.
At least now I know which idle jet size to buy (not going to attempt to drill another one, know your limitations I say).
I also think to do this properly I really need an O2 sensor in the exhaust.

Next job will be to take the radiators out and have them cleaned and replace all the water/heater hoses.

Will also check with Tony and see if he has made another set of steering rack rubbers.

Cheers
Rob

[oz_toffa]

Sounds like the progress is pretty good Robert.

Thought that there was an un-used set of Steering Rubbers at Pedders in Salisbury??

But i also need a set still for the Grey Ghost sometime. No hurry.

Chris

[RobSA]

Ha ha, yes Oz there was, they should be up in the hills with the good rack at the moment.
We are all going to need some more at some stage I was just going to make sure sets were being made as time goes along.

Cheers
Rob

[mrflibbles]

they are all safe and sound those rack mounts!

[RobSA]

Well here goes, one step forward one step backward ...

New main idle jet size 47, new main jet size 120.
Drive round the block, still an intermittent miss - place bad jokes here

Seems I may have a dodgey distributor.
The cap shows some tracking and the contacts on the rotor cap are all burnt : (
Didn't help the points wire was jammed between the cap and the distributor body.
The shaft has a lot of sideways play, vertical play is pretty good.

Dilemma ...

do I try and fix this distributor or graft a better electronic one to the Bellett base??
anyone done this before ???

Cheers
Rob

[PR91]

do I try and fix this distributor or graft a better electronic one to the Bellett base??
anyone done this before ???

they're all dodgey by now rob if they haven't had some attention over the 40-something years.
the one in my GT is a classic case.... had it checked, and it should of had 0deg of mechanical advance at 600rpm idle (aside from the preset static advance, as were talking of what the distributor itself was doing).... it had 6deg at only 400rpm.... and over 14deg at 1000rpm.... and were as it should give about 30-odd deg full advance at around 3000rpm (i can't remember the exact numbers).... it had 44deg at only 2700rpm.... no wonder it pinged it's head off and couldn't be tuned!

personally, i won't use points these days. sure, originality is great on an original or resto'd car, but there are a million advantages to going electronic. no point gap closures, constant advance curves, much better spark, ease of maintanence, ease of parts, etc.
only prob is there no straight conversion "kit"....
i took mine to an excellent ignition place over here (they also have done my Wasp and race car), and told them what i wanted. in the end, they only Bellett piece it now has is the drive piece that turns it!
it uses a bosch body and cap (i think from a corolla), a magna electronic unit and rotor, and bosch HEI brain box. it also needed a bigger coil (points won't cop much more than 22k volts, but this elec unit needs about 40k volts), so a bosch one is used too.
it's HEAPS better. just drop it in, wire it up (2 wires. 1 each side of the coil), time it, and go! i had to open up the plug gaps a bit, and it's a totally different car to drive. starts much easier too, coz it has a big, fat spark to fire off.
only problem with this idea.... cost. the whole thing, inc coil, was about $450, but when u consider that the distributor body needed a fair bit of machining to fit the Bellett engine, a custom made rotor shaft, and all the pieces are brand new, it's not too bad, and also, the one in my Wasp (which is 99% the same as the GT's) cost $340 in 1994, and the fact it's so much better, i reckon it's worth it in the long run.
hope this helps.
cheers.

if u want, i can email u some pics of it. PM me mate.

[PR91]

ohh, and your PCV question.... doesn't need one. the PCV is used after the carb, as from the carb on is under vacuum.
and also, sedan's and GT's had the hose going straight into the air cleaners from new, so it won't need one now.

[Farmer]

A couple of years ago George (of Dubbo) was looking at coverting using a Honda Breakerless dizzy, but I don't know how it went. I'll give him a call. And yeah, if your shaft has side slap, the spark will be all over the shop. For now, close up the gap as much as it will take & still idle. If you put a dwell meter on it & the reading varies as you rev up, there is too much slap.. Those little wires have given me grief before - Doris did the whole Adelaide trip, then the next time I went to go, she wouldn't! Put in new little wires, just in case!
Cheers, Matt.

[RobSA]

That would be good Matt.
Any info at this point is welcome.
It's a pain because when it runs good it's nice, then it just turns to s***.
Cleaned the points, cleaned the cap, ran rubbish, took cap off, nothing looked out of place, put cap back on she's run nice, rev it, starts missing ....aaaaaaarrrrgggghhhhhhh.
So close to throwing it across the paddock !!!

Anyhow I know what's wrong and I know how to fix it, just got to get it together

Patience, is a virtue so they say .... never worked on cars obviously !!

Cheers
Rob

[Barney]

I would be very interested in electronic ignition if anyone finds a cheap solution please share it on the forum!

Perhaps there is an aftermarket kit (Pertronix?) from a similar sized dizzy that could be easily adapted??

PS, keep the updates coming Rob, I love Bella!

[Farmer]

So I did ring George, and he did convert the Honda (not sure what model, 4 years ago) dizzy, but it was a clockwise dizzy. Running backwards isn't a problem, it started easy, idled nice, but you get vacuum retard instead of advance! Not ideal.
So he just stayed with points.
Why don't I just send you a Dizzy Rob? - there are a few in the shed. Surely one will have good bearings!
PM me your adress if you want one.
Cheers, Matt.

[RobSA]

Thanks for the info Matt.
The distributor is okay, I have three to build a good one from !!!

You'll all like this ... the first one I pulled apart had all this aluminum paste and metal bits around the mechanical advance.
Upon closer inspection it turned out to be the remnants of one of the advance weight springs that have chewed the inside of the distributor body and mixed it all in the grease.
Yuck : P

Still the main bearings at the bottom where good and it didn't wear through the housing too far. Now to disassemble the next one.
Maybe that has a good top part ... this could take awhile.

I also found on the Demon Tweeks website some points replacement units ... need to work out what distributor it is (I can't find my book at the moment).

And this ... anybody know anything about these?

http://www.123ignition.nl/id/50.html

The standard distributors for Citroen's etc are around $550 AUD, so the 123/Tune maybe around the $600 - $700.
Not sure if this is good for a programmable distributor.

Anyhow ...

Cheers
Rob

[RobSA]

Found this on the web ...

http://www.leenapk.nl/products.php?category_id=77

This is the programmable distributor that only needs a 12mm spacer to fit to Bellett engine.
The picture is not of the exact one for the Bellett but it gives an idea of what they are like.

Anybody know anything about these?

Cheers
Rob

[GTtoo]

Hey Rob, Great to see Bella progressing, albeit with some frustrations. Seeing this ignition problem makes it very "timely" to get back to Bellettnet. PR91, as usual, shares his wealth of experience with us. I've also been told that the electronic kit is worth it if you can afford it.

Only yesterday, I put a new set of plugs and points in the GT. The difference is amazing !! More bang, less fuel, a much less erratic idle and vapour out the exhaust, not sooty unburnt fuel. The old plugs were blackened, half burnt and had a gap as wide as the Grand Canyon. The points were also out of wack. The bloke at autopro looked at the listings.. and guess what? You can still get most of the isuzu distributor parts for these donks !! So if your like me and have to settle for the cheaper option for now, see your local autopro guys.

ps also interested in rack rubbers and any other front end rubbers. Thanks for keeping a finger on it mrflibbles.

B.