TP Magna disks brakes to Bellett

[mrflibbles]

i guess you could use a falcon rear caliper to get a handbrake, then just have to figure out a handbrake cable set up!
at least here in Adelaide there are alot of these older mitsubishis still floating around, might have to go have a look down at u-pull it one day....

[PR91]

the falcon one is a cock-up to be brutally honest.
if i need a handbrake on rear discs.... i'd go R31 nissan skyline (the last one the aussie built jobs).
much better set up, and i have a feeling they'd bolt onto the sigma stuff, seeing as they are (i think.....) a PBR caliper and were fitted to borg warner diffs too.

[mrflibbles]

yeah i know the falcon ones bite big time (have had to fix a few!), hadnt thought of the skyline ones. ill have to have a look at the next one that i see at work.

[Glenn]

I have some Skyline ones for my hotrod. They are similar to the Magnas with inbuilt handbrake. The cable though pulls forward like Magna so either the Bellett cable run will need to be altered or the caliper to make it a cross pull. (a cam etc)

glenn

[Glenn]

OK, small update on this thread.

I have found out:-

you cannot legally add any stiffener to the adapter plate, by welding.

The plate should be around 10mm for a 'large' car. This might mean a 8 or 9mm plate would be ok for a car such as a Bellett. I need to find out what plate is obtainable at local merchants.

PR91 was kind enough to give me a spare drum. I will weigh it up with the drum brakes and compare weights to the new one, asap. I know that unsprung weight will increase, Qn is...how much?

glenn

[BULLITT]

hey glennoff the magna track but how about a snap of your hotrod cheers davo

[Glenn]

OK HERE IT IS. I STARTED WITH A BODY ONLY AS YOU SEE. NO REAR PANELS, BOOTLID ETC.. NO FLOOR
Typical for these cars, rust all round the bottom 100mm has to be replaced with metal. Bullet holes etc.........
Remember, these cars had a wooden inner structure with a lot of the body nailed to it ! All replaced with steel tube now..
That big hole sin the roof use to be a material nailed to wood also. Now filled with steel and ssunroof from an early Nissan Micra.

Just to keep the thread "Bellett" In the background is a white GT I was putting the Turbo Piazza motor into.

[Glenn]

A little more info. on the TP Magna setup etc

approx. weights:

6kg Bellett drum and shoes, backing plates etc

6kg TP disk vented rotor only
4.5kg TP Caliper only

Still need to add on any adapater plates; but so far, the extra unsprung weight is about 4.5kg

I went to wreckers again to day to have a look and photograph Sigma front brakes. No luck though as the car is fitted with Mag wheels and lock nuts ! Grrrrrrr. And only one in the yard. Looked in the boot for the tool but no luck their either. Did find a nice socket wrench so took that home.

Glenn

[Glenn]

a bit more....... Miserable day today so went to get some steel. This is very preliminary, don't run out and copy this as it's just to show what progress there is?

I bought a piece of mild steel bar, 200mm wide. I won't mention thickness yet.

I used a printed circuit board design package to draw up the caliper mounting bracket. Then printed to scale and cut it out to try. This is the 1st trial only and the pictures do not really show it fitted up properly as i ran out of hands........

Will need some more fiddling etc before i actually cut the steel. The steel cost $6.80 but a bunch of cutting disks added $30 to that ! Maybe I don't need them all.
One would assume that if this was a conversion that worked out OK, then laser cut plates would be cheaper and easier. The hassle though with this conversion, using the Magna calipers pictured, is that milling of the bracket is needed also. While I have a mill at home, that is no problem for me.

[Glenn]

sorry, bigger picture now......

[mrflibbles]

looks good mate, i enjoy seeing what your doing blow by blow. i wont rush out yet and copy you ill wait and see if it works first!
(yes its handy having access to lathes/mills/mig/tig etc!)

[Glenn]

yeah don't copy me.
Hopefully though, something will come of this. Takes time though so a bit drawn out.
Otherwise i might go look at the solid disk Sigma again. Possiblt better option as i think the bracket is simpler.

glenn

[BULLITT]

keep at it glenn its great reading ...and you are lucky to have the right gear ....we watch with baited breath cheers davo

[claws]

Hi Glenn,
Did you make any more progress with the brakes. Have a significant sudden interest in the brake conversion as I have just found that the bellett from the older thread that you refered to is now owned by me and did not progress any further than its last photos in 2009. Am wondering whether the previous owner may have struck major issues with the conversion and if this is partly why he put it up for sale. Would be interested to hear about any other brake conversions happening as I will need to be sorting it all out by May to get registered for the Nats.

[Glenn]

I sort of got side tracked doing the Sport and i am
'car'd out' for a while.

But i saw one such conversion at the nats but so far can't get any further info on that car. Maybe not a member of this forum. But there is at least one other in this group who has the conversion done but i have no info on it. I have worked out a mounting plate shape etc alreday but... My main concern was the thickness of the mounting plate. From what i can see, a 6mm plate would be the max that can be fitted in there, unless another caliper type could be found.
The wisdom on this group seems to be that a 10mm plate would be 'safer'? Or engineer aprovable at least?

I take it that you bought the green efi DOHC sedan with part done brake conversion on it ? I don't think the brake conversion was reason for selling the car.

The other conversions involve sigma type parts but without machining. There is a thread about this and some trickery with inner bearings to make the hub bolt on but i can't seemto get anything firm on thisone re part numbers and more to the point, if somebody has actually done it.

[JT191]

From what i can see, a 6mm plate would be the max that can be fitted in there, unless another caliper type could be found.
The wisdom on this group seems to be that a 10mm plate would be 'safer'?

What if you use a 10 mm plate, and machine the face of the spindle mounting surface into one side 2 mm deep, and machine the face of the caliper mounting surface into the other side 2 mm deep?
The offset would be 6mm but the material would be 10mm in the middle and along the edges, for a little extra strength.

[67GT]

Hi Glenn, I have just come across this thread, and am not sure if this is even relevant, but my first Bellett was a '67 Gt that had modified brakes. I am not sure whoo did the mods, or what they had to do, but it seems they used Toyota (Corona I think ) calipers. Although they too may be thin on the ground today, parts from Toyota may still be available ??

[Glenn]

From what i can see, a 6mm plate would be the max that can be fitted in there, unless another caliper type could be found.
The wisdom on this group seems to be that a 10mm plate would be 'safer'?

What if you use a 10 mm plate, and machine the face of the spindle mounting surface into one side 2 mm deep, and machine the face of the caliper mounting surface into the other side 2 mm deep?
The offset would be 6mm but the material would be 10mm in the middle and along the edges, for a little extra strength.

No machinging of stub axles or calipers is allowed here. That means that the only thing left is the bracket. I have seen no hard and fast rulings from an engineeer, who should actually oversee a conversion like this (legally) but it seems 10mm is the accepted norm.
Given that the spacing i have found when looking at this is closer to 6mm or even less between the parts then it would seem one procedes with a less than optimum (and legal?) bracket or another caliper has to be found. And one to suit the TP rotor thickness. And be compatible with the master cylinder etc.
A lot of questions remain about this conversion, even though at least two conversions have been made but no detail is forthcoming.

[Glenn]

Hi Glenn, I have just come across this thread, and am not sure if this is even relevant, but my first Bellett was a '67 Gt that had modified brakes. I am not sure whoo did the mods, or what they had to do, but it seems they used Toyota (Corona I think ) calipers. Although they too may be thin on the ground today, parts from Toyota may still be available ??

I did have some corona calipers and also rotors here but they are now disposed of. A conversion needs to be with either a recent model car or one that has found favour with other conversions and so parts are available. The TP rotors are used on a number of Nissan conversion, if you look on the web so the rotors are easy to get new.

[JT191]

From what i can see, a 6mm plate would be the max that can be fitted in there, unless another caliper type could be found.
The wisdom on this group seems to be that a 10mm plate would be 'safer'?

What if you use a 10 mm plate, and machine the face of the spindle mounting surface into one side 2 mm deep, and machine the face of the caliper mounting surface into the other side 2 mm deep?
The offset would be 6mm but the material would be 10mm in the middle and along the edges, for a little extra strength.

No machinging of stub axles or calipers is allowed here. That means that the only thing left is the bracket. I have seen no hard and fast rulings from an engineeer, who should actually oversee a conversion like this (legally) but it seems 10mm is the accepted norm.
Given that the spacing i have found when looking at this is closer to 6mm or even less between the parts then it would seem one procedes with a less than optimum (and legal?) bracket or another caliper has to be found. And one to suit the TP rotor thickness. And be compatible with the master cylinder etc.
A lot of questions remain about this conversion, even though at least two conversions have been made but no detail is forthcoming.

This is a diagram of what I was trying to explain.
I drew as 18 mm to illustrate. It's not to scale or an accurate section, just an illustration of the idea.
The idea would be to locate the position of the holes in a thicker piece of sheet/plate. Then draw the outline of the spindle on the back side, and the outline of the caliper bracket on the top side. Use a mill to cut the outline of the spindle into the bottom of the bracket, and cut the outline of the caliper into the top of the bracket, leaving the desired offset (6mm) between the surface that has been recessed into the faces of the bracket.
This will provide more thickness in the middle of the bracket, and on the sides opposite the caliper and the spindle mounting surface. And with more thickness, more strength.

You might also want to add more material around the outside of the axle, and provide enough space to attach a dust shield to the back of the caliper bracket to keep rocks from hitting the back of the disc.

The legal requirement described for not removing material from the spindle or the caliper is less a spoiler and more of a justification for making a more detailed bracket. The more important benefits are:

• 1. The car can be returned to the original brakes without additional machining.
  2. Any standard (same model) caliper can be picked up off the shelf and bolted directly on without modification (in case it breaks or wears out).
  3. The same bracket can be used by anyone to attach the same model of caliper to a car sharing the same spindle, without the need of any machining to make them fit.
  4. It is less expensive to machine one piece from scratch, than to machine one piece from scratch and then machine the two existing pieces that bolt to the bracket.