PR91W Bellett GTR

[JT191]

maybe a clue on this subject ????
goo-net have a few gt's at the moment on the left hand side is a discription how many km's ect.also in these discriptions are body numbers. Here is the clue as there are some gtr looking cars advertised as gtr when you look over to the body number some read pr91w-****** while others read pr91-****** maybe proof who knows?

This car showed up on Yahoo Auction today:
http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w54831182


It is being presented as an original, genuine GTR. The bidding opens at 1,850,000 Yen, which would be $21,000.00 USD.
It is in remarkable condition, but there is no way that a converted car would command such a premium price.

The seller has placed a large number of photos online:
http://picasaweb.google.com/10001222504 ... 54/Q_ichi#




This is a photo of the serial number printed into the firewall/cowl of the car:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_fUf1fVUdJZU/TGiPm ... 140071.JPG



"PR91-4210(MYOB)"
There is a small black plaque to the left of the printed serial number. It looks original. I have never seen one of these plaques before and can not read what it says. Perhaps this little plaque is some indication of the car being a GTR.

This is not proof by any stretch, but it is the first photo we have had to examine of the serial number printed in the firewall/cowl for any car claimed to be a GTR.

[gt orphanage]

Hi jt i am not suggesting in any way that there is or isn't a w? I thought it was was a valid observation .As for the car you featured i could love it and make sure it gets a good home and would not think any less of it for (possibly) lacking a w or it's blackouts?

[JT191]

I am not suggesting in any way, shape, or form, that the white car being auctioned shows proof that the number printed in the car of a genuine GTR does not have a W included. Only that the topic is so seriously lacking in any conclusive evidence.

IF there is a conclusion to this debate that leans toward there not being a W in the number printed in the car, then the only rational reason for the W to be in the paperwork is that we, as humans, are changing the number on the paperwork in order to more specifically describe the vehicle.

I looked very hard at the description, hoping the serial number was included. It was not. I was very surprised with the pictures of the firewall and serial number.

It's a remarkable car. The list of replaced and overhauled pieces in the description is exhaustive.

[PR91W]

Hi, I am putting the Bellett back on Trademe tonight. Just been for a drive in it and now really don't want to sell it but really have to. Or - should I sell the RX7 with 6000 original km's ?? I do like the sound of $33,000 US for the bellett though. From what I saw on the paperwork for that one it didn't have a W in the chasis number. Does that confirm that they don't? OR- do replica's fetch 33k USD?
Let the debate continue!!!

Man, it is a cool wee car though - sideways around the roundabout with a huge grin on my face. Makes the RX7 seem slow.

[gt orphanage]

D Ditch the mazda.

[PR91W]

Here is the link;
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... 14&ed=true

[adrianglock]

really rare to see these classic cars! Hopefully Isuzu would reproduce this classy cars with modern look with diesel power on it.

[gt orphanage]

This is a touchy subject i know I spent a lot of time today with isuzu sports with a interpreter and this question was raised
This is how it was explained. There are 3 types of gtr proto type sold early more available and late available you could order the later two in any isuzu colour. On the production line they were known as pr91w cars these cars can be indentified i was shown today how to identify a genuine gtr series 2/3 they were classed on the production line as w as they went through the plant with gt's The reason they were called a pr91w is the W was to smbol that it was recieving a 161W engine. Ther is talk of people putting the w into the vin here they are yet to see one as the tampering of the vin causes rego problems.
Another way of telling easy is the original transport papers on record here from when the car was new show that a gt is shown on this paper work as 4000mm long and a type r is 4010mm long this is very strict here and can not be fudged.

[alvis36]

(Repost from "my Bellett")

I bought a Bellett GT-R in Japan last year and it currently undergoing a full bare metal resto in Australia, with an estimated finish date of November 2020. I was in Japan in Jan/Feb this year and caught up with Norikuni Okazaki ( owner of a blue modified GT) and Akira Ogawa. Akira san worked his whole life at Isuzu, mostly as a mechanic and related fields. He has just retired and is the owner of an orange GT-R. I had him inspect my Bellett at Yokohama to verify its authenticity. He gave me a copy of a September 1969 Isuzu Company internal Bulletin.
I note that there has been a lot of conjecture here about PR91 versus PR91W in terms of VINs and what features define a GT-R.
As some members have correctly stated, the PR91 "W" was simply an internal company designation for the GT-R and did not appear in the GT-R chassis numbers stamped on the actual cars.
The Bulletin is a long document in Japanese but I have translated the relevant sections, describing the key differences between the GT and the GT-R.

Please find it attached as a word document.

[Glenn]

(Repost from "my Bellett")

I bought a Bellett GT-R in Japan last year and it currently undergoing a full bare metal resto in Australia, with an estimated finish date of November 2020. I was in Japan in Jan/Feb this year and caught up with Norikuni Okazaki ( owner of a blue modified GT) and Akira Ogawa. Akira san worked his whole life at Isuzu, mostly as a mechanic and related fields. He has just retired and is the owner of an orange GT-R. I had him inspect my Bellett at Yokohama to verify its authenticity. He gave me a copy of a September 1969 Isuzu Company internal Bulletin.
I note that there has been a lot of conjecture here about PR91 versus PR91W in terms of VINs and what features define a GT-R.
As some members have correctly stated, the PR91 "W" was simply an internal company designation for the GT-R and did not appear in the GT-R chassis numbers stamped on the actual cars.
The Bulletin is a long document in Japanese but I have translated the relevant sections, describing the key differences between the GT and the GT-R.

Please find it attached as a word document.

Interesting document on the GTR. I have a 72 Sport Bellett and it shares the bigger fuel tank with the GTR. And the bonnet vents. Not sure if that tank was a retrofit or standard on this year. I wonder what the strengthened chassis mods were? Even though a late model my steering column does not seem to be a collapsible type. Was that only on GTR?

I'm sure all of would love to see some pictures of the car before and during the resto if you would like to share.

Glenn

[alvis36]

Hi Glenn,
I cannot speak to collapsible steering columns on later models. But Sept 1969 was when the GTR was debuted and so the Bulletin was very fresh at the time.
I will see if I can find any more info on the chassis strengthening in the rest of the document.

I will post a few pre resto pics but not being used to the mechanics of this forum yet, see how we go

Regards

Peter

[Glenn]

Thats one nice looking GTR you have.

Resto pictures will be very nice to see, but it looks so nice now, are there some hidden issues?

Late models had some braces up under the dash area on the A pillars. I assume that's part of what the GTR has. They angle back from the firewall to the leading edge of the doors.

glenn