Ex Rally Bellett 1500 in Finland

[redback]

Anyone really really keen on a Bellett, here is one in Finland for sale. Only used Sundays heh heh

Also notice - he has 2 spare cars!!!

It is a left hand drive.

Link:
http://www.rally24.com/rally-cars-for-s ... -1365.html

Cheers

[hudson]

That's been for sale for a while.

[Antti Pellonpää]

I owned that Bellett before Klaus, who made it a rally car. I bought it from an old couple. It´s a good build rally car but the homologation forms do not allow you to get enough power of the engine in it´s class. About 100 horsepower is the limit with the single Nikki carburettor. And you can´t use a limited slip differential.

[2ldohc]

That's dumped!!

[hudson]

I owned that Bellett before Klaus, who made it a rally car. I bought it from an old couple. It´s a good build rally car but the homologation forms do not allow you to get enough power of the engine in it´s class. About 100 horsepower is the limit with the single Nikki carburettor. And you can´t use a limited slip differential.

I didn't know about that.

If I ever do actually rally --which is and always has been lots of time and money away-- ... I've usually only considered much more open classes.

Generally, the person with the most money to spend has the fastest car anyways.. but at least in the classes that aren't production based you have room to manuever.

Put the 2.3 w/ dual side drafts, get a locking rear or weld it, and some good ratios and she would be quick And if it's not fast enough still, turbo the thing!

Cheers,

Andrew

[JT191]

If I ever do actually rally --which is and always has been lots of time and money away-- ... I've usually only considered much more open classes.

Please do not build a Bellett as a car to "learn how to drive rally". Most beginner rally cars have a short life before being wrapped around a tree. Look for something that is cheap, has cheap and plentiful parts, and has absolutely no personal value.

There is a difference between a car enthusiast and a driving enthusiast.
A driving enthusiast will race anything as long as it goes. These people usually pick the most competitive car for the class they want to race in.
A car enthusiast has their favorite car that they want to take on the rest of the world in. These people usually complain that their car isn't competitive in the class their car has been put into.
Anyone in the second group will do better in events that are not fender to fender, do not have a course that has trees to run into or cliffs to drive off.

In motorsports, the winner isn't always the one that spent the most money. The better driver, in a car that has good enough handling and power to get the job done, is the better bet as the winner. Learning to drive at a competitive level would be the most important part, followed by getting the car over the hump from fighting to get it to do what you want it to, to the point that it is actually doing what you want it to do.
But, usually the driver who has spent more time on the track and more money in driving schools to become the best driver, has also spent more money on their car by the time they become the best driver.

[hudson]

Please do not build a Bellett as a car to "learn how to drive rally". Most beginner rally cars have a short life before being wrapped around a tree. Look for something that is cheap, has cheap and plentiful parts, and has absolutely no personal value.

That's some good advice there. Personally, I'd recommend a Volvo 240 (edit for people that don't live in North America, the Volvo 240 is the last plentiful, had nearly for free, rust free, rear drive, non massive car in North America.. the next best rear drive car would be a BMW --more $$--). Rallying a bellett as anything other than a toy vintage rallyer would most likely be a costly mistake. Unless there's some magical sheet metal and bits and bobs source no one here knows about.

There is a difference between a car enthusiast and a driving enthusiast.

Which one are you jt?

A car enthusiast has their favorite car that they want to take on the rest of the world in. These people usually complain that their car isn't competitive in the class their car has been put into.

True enough.. although some of it is the sanctioning bodies fault.

In this particular case, the problem I believe is that in order to compete in Historic, likely production rally. This Isuzu 1500 sedan is limited to a single crappy carberator and one wheel drive.

The whole homologation thing is more than a little silly. Some companies were heads and shoulders better at getting tricked out specs in the Homologation of the car. Sure some companies actually delivered the goods in large numbers to the public, while others pretended to.

I'm more of a run what ya brung kind of guy. I think that other than things like safety requirements, displacement maximums and weight minimums things should be left alone. Having too many rules limits the field to only certain models being competitive (boring and pricey) and people having to spend cubic dollars for some onobtainium part that happened to get homologated (applies to classic only really).

I also think that the best way to limit crazy spending and cheating is to have an any competitor can buy your car for x clause.

Oh, and yes, driving matters a whole lot.

[Antti Pellonpää]

When I rallyed with Timo Hytönen in the 90´s, we first drove with a 4d sedan. It was not so competitive if there was long straight roads but if there is a lots of curves and jumps, you can win the others. Then we had a GT with 1,6 OHV and it was quite good. But when we got a GT(R) with 150 horsepower 1,6 twincam, the joy began.. We also won the bigger class cars. In Thousand Lakes Historic Rally we were second in our class. And there was cars from other counties too, because it was part of the European historic rally championship. As you maybe know, standard Bellett has 53% of its weight on the front wheels and 47% on the rear wheels. When you put the battery into the trunk and make some other little changes, you can get near 50/50. So you can go very fast to the jumps and Bellett flies very beautifully and comes to its wheels nicely. In that Thousand Lakes Historic Rally they had a place where they measured the jumps. We had the longest jump, 34 meters... And the speed was about 140km/h when we came to the jump.

Here in Finland also historic rallying is very organized. We have these FIA rallys and you have to build your car as the homologation forms say. And of course before the rallys they look the papers and search every car that it is as the homologations say. I think this is fair play.

I just yesterday send GTR PR91W and GT PR91 (SOHC-engine) homologations to ISU69. They will also come to our club sites http://www.isuzuownersclub.com so that everyone who needs (for FIA rally/race) can copy them (english > images, there on the top). There has been the never ending discussion about the W. You can see that the body number series is the same with PR91 and PR91W, but on the homologation forms there the body number is written PR91W-...... But we have never had problems with rallying GT´s with twincams in FIA rallys. F.ex that GT which we drove with twincam, got a FIA pass with twincam. And we have done that from the late sixties here in Finland. Because the real body number which starts from the "PR91-" or the "PR91W-" is the same series. So, is the W stamped in the "original" GTR:s. I don´t know. They told me about 20 years ago from Isuzu Motors that they made the GTR:s by taking a GT from the line and put the GTR parts on, if someone had ordered a GTR. But I have never asked that if there was this W. But there is no space for the W if the normal GT body number is there already. But these FIA homologation forms should be reliable and the W is there.

The truth is out there

[isu1600]

... Antti told to jump... this picture jump is just started... http://s431.photobucket.com/albums/qq37 ... C03788.jpg

[Antti Pellonpää]

Yes! There we are. I have that same photo here at work on the wall. I remember that this specialstage was driven two times. First time we went this jump 80km/h (much too slow..) and this, the second time flat out... The photographer asked us later that how can our car be in one piece after that jump... Bellett is a tough car.

This discussion has went far away from "Belletts for Sale"...

[redback]

Hey Antti,
I know it has gone away from "Belletts for Sale" but this is what this website is all about - getting to know the cars and people of Bellett.net.
I think it is amazing that you can post a photo of a car and someone on here knows the history of it and where it is now - it's great to talk about a car we all feel so passionate about.

Cheers,
Neil

[Antti Pellonpää]

I just spoke with Klaus W. who is selling this Bellett rally car. He will reduce the price to 5000 euros, 9815 AUD. It has the new FIA pass and it´s legal for official FIA rallys all over the world.