Engine rebuild

[Stickman]

Hi all,

My 'ol '65 is in need of an engine rebuild but I don't have the time or the place to do it. Neither do I have the necesary componants to perform the task. As a result I'm needing to be pointed in the right direction as to who may be able to perform the surgery for me. I don't mind paying for the job to be done right but no one I know will touch it. They [i]"don't like"[/i] working on old cars.

I do have a fresh mildly worked Gemmi motor I could put in it but don't have the time to do the req brake upgrade to pull it up again. I'm in Brisbane and I don't mind travelling to get it done as long as it 's done right. I would welcome and appreciate any pointers in the right direction.

Geoff 'Stickman' T

[Stickman]

I finally found someone to do the job for me!
Also found all the bits I need in NZ.

Now just have to wait till it can be squeezed in to the schedule.

Stickman

[RobSA]

Hi mate,

Any chance you have a link or info for the engine rebuild parts you found in NZ.

Cheers
Rob

[PR91]

I do have a fresh mildly worked Gemmi motor I could put in it but don't have the time to do the req brake upgrade to pull it up again.

glad youre staying with the bellett engine, coz trust me mate, a gemini conversion is not a simple bolt in job for a bellett. far, far from it.
and while a brake upgrade is not a simple job either, it's the easiest part of the job!
cheers.

[PR95]

Hey Stickman were you on Gympie Rd near Stafford Rd last Friday??

[Stickman]

Hi all,

Rings, pistons, valves & springs, timing chain, NOS head, cam, belts, hoses and a box of other early Bell' bits I scored from a guy in NZ who had advertised on Trademe some time back (12 months+). The freakish thing about it is, he turns out to be the brother in law of a flat mate I had 6 months ago. Mike mentioned to him I had an early model Bellett and he texted me to offer the parts. He was clearing out his old mans shed apparently and didn't want to simply bin anything. They should land here in a week or two.

As far as the Gem engine and brake swap, I have a 69 sedan with rusty chasis that has it in it, all the mods bar a few little things are done so it's almost a bolt over change. That option is still on the cards and the rebuid engine may end up in it once the chasis is fixed.

Hmmmmm Gympie Rd near Stafford you say. If it was a crusty looking brush painted dark green tear drop you saw with a spray can painted white stripe running from nose to tail, scorpion mags and a wisper of smoke following close behind then the answer would be a definate yes. The green machine is my daily driver and I use it a bit through the week for site meatings with builders and architects around Brisbane so I could be spoted just about anywhere.
I hope you tooted the horn and waved!? I get a few toots and waves around town which is always a bit of fun. Mainly from Citreon DS and VW Kombie drivers. Their always such a happy buch of folk.


Stickman

[BELLQLD]

what a great brush painted finish it beats 2 pak all the time it has such a lustre regards dave

[Stickman]

Don't you know it Dave!
You've see first hand how this baby glistens in the sunlight.

As long as your wearing rose coloured glasses that is.

One day it will glow like a spring mornings dew - one day

Geoff

[RobSA]

HELP NEEDED !!!!!!

Please can anybody who has built a hottie Bellett 1500 give me an idea what I need to get/do or any links to suppliers.

Basic things such as bigger pistons, more compression. Old pumps more volume ? Timing gears, chain apparently is V8 minus two links.
Bigger valves (do they fit), roller rockers !? (i ask because I not know if can get or needed), valve springs and retainers.

Windage trays, studs (head and main), crank mods, block mods !?

At the moment I have an open mind to the direction for Bella's engine rebuild

Cheers
Rob

[PR91]

G150 bellett block can be taken out to 1622cc...
bore it to 83mm and fit 40thou up 1600 gemini pistons and rods.
or bore to 82mm and fit standard 1600 gemini stuff. bit cheaper and leaves more meat in the cylinder walls.
valves can go out to holden jobs, but i'll check that first.
rocker gear will live. no such thing as rollers unless u want to make them.... read $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
springs i'll check.
rod and main bolts i'll check.
never seen a windage tray in one, but have made crank scrapers for them. easy mod.

i'd hunt down a early luv/florian g161 tho. bigger capacity to start with, and better head design.
will give better results for the same money.

[RobSA]

thanks Brett.

at the moment I'm amassing all ideas.
Got a rebuild article from yellowperil, which says a bit of that stuff.

Hadn't realised Belletts had a floating piston pin !
Roller question was if anyone has used in place of the stockies (just getting ideas) - still got my V8 Chrysler set in the cupboard

1600 pistons sound good, are there race or performance versions with floating pins - Bellett size or is pressed pin the only choice ?

Cheers
Rob

[bellett65]

Go for a full balance. Peter Schroeder would not build a Bellett engine without balancing it. He did also play with the valve train angles. He can glean a lot of neddies out of Isuzu motors with attention to detail.

Peter

[yellowperil]

Hi RobSA

The work and $$$ you put into roller rockers would be well spent elsewhere (IMO). There seem to be various opinions about their worth but I think you could make a hot street car without them. The time spent on "blueprinting" the valve train would be a much better investment, coupled with some mild port work like matching manifolds carefully and smoothing out casting bumps, ridges with a small grinder all pay dividends. Make sure that there are no sharp edges in the "bowl" area behind the valves, esp. the inlet valve. All this would pay big dividends and wouldn't come near the cost of roller rockers. also match your piston/conrod weights very carefully, try to get them to within 1 gram of each other.
If you have the cast iron head it might be worth investigating if the larger valves from the aluminium head motor would fit. Doing this coupled with a set of extractors and a nice carby set up with balanced crank/flywheel as mentioned by bellett 65will make a sweet motor. A 34 DMS weber conversion also paid big dividends but I think it makes YP a bit thirstier. If you like I can take some close up photos of the set up for you. The pleasant thing about this is that cables, linkages require very little modification.

Brett's idea of the oversize Gemini pistons is great, the conversion to standard 82 mm gave more torque, so going out further would suit the maxim "More cubic inches, more power, more power, more fun"

I have a supplier in Hobart who sourced a new timing chain for me a few years back, am getting them to find me another this week. If you want one give me a yell and I can arrange. however other members will be able to throw more light on this as chains seem to be very interchangeable, given profile, joining links etc.

Good luck, keep us updated

[gt orphanage]

We get the wasp motor back this week from the machine shop it has been bored to take gemini pistons,gem rods,cam grind,gemini valves,ballanced and so on. later in the week it will be going back together.

[yellowperil]

Hi Gt Orph

That will be one fast Wasp. Fully balanced makes the motor rev very nicely.

And going back together later in the week !!! - I've been at it for months.

Do you mind me asking about the specs on the gemini valves - I didn't know they were compatible, I'm having some made but if Gem valves area available as performance mods they sound like a good substitute for future reference.
YP

[gt orphanage]

i will pm the machine shop they are the ones doing the head work.

[yellowperil]

Thanks Gt much appreciated

[RobSA]

Are G180/G200 Gemini rods the same length as G160 rods, and are the big ends the same size ?

Cheers
Rob

[gt orphanage]

rob i don't know if you google a gem site may help? i got Lizzies from g161z.

[RobSA]

Greg, yeah I have been cruisin' a few of the Gemini sites,
but they don't seem to be to hot on giving much in the way of technical details.

They seem to get bogged down in pointless debates, this bottom end stronger, etc ... oh well.
It gets tiresome wading through the trivia

What I was trying to work out was if G180/G200 rods would fit the Bellett G160 engine.
The reason was that I have seen a very nice set of rods for a G180/G200.
(I know I will need to shave the big end to get the correct side clearances).

I have nearly settled on using Gemini G161z (82mm) pistons, manufacturer and final specifications pending.

Cheers
Rob

*edited ... found G180z/G200z rod length is 133.5mm C/C
....found G150 rod length is 128mm c/c
.....found compression height G161z 36.55mm, G180z 36.70mm and G200z 36.50mm
... this suggests that unless the blocks are physically different heights that the G161z rod is 130mm C/C
... question is the G150/G161 C/C the same as the G161z ?