Strengthening the front suspension

[Jeff]

Hi,
As you all know I have been going back and forth on this V8 conversion on a Bellett GT. I would like to know if anyone on the forum has fitted another frontend or gone through the process of strengthening the original to handle a larger engine and if they have any photos or hints on what they did, especially the guys who have raced their Bellett's.

Any info would be appreciated, I mention to Greg about it being a tight fit but I might just give it a go to see if I can get everything to work. the issue is space of course but also the front end is not strong enough to handle the weight and torque (in its stock format) and keep a decent turning circle with hopefully larger than 15 inch wheels. Aiming for 17 at the front max and 18 at the rear with a tub job.

All pretty out there but you don't try you, you don't know. especially if I find a GT that not complete which can give me free rain on the custom chassis.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Jeff

[flying]

Jeff

You may have to go down the line of v8 's into Capris land fabricate a chassis kit like the Castlemaine rod shop

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-CAPRI-C ... 257da15b9d

My 2 cents

Flying

[rod]

any feed back you say .....your on drugs ...v8 in a bellett .... .....why

[BULLITT]

why not ???

[Jeff]

I know the purist will not agree with such a plan but if a GT shell was to far past restoring back to original then doing something different to save it then a custom car is still another Bellett on the road. Everyone has done V8 Corolla's, Gemini's, Datsun's etc. So a Bellett is something completely different, I could put a V6 in it but if you are going to all that trouble you might as well put a V8 in it.

I am a fan just like everyone else of original cars and have had a few original early Holden's over the years. I have just finished an LS1 Conversion in a EJ Sedan and am going through full engineering and I have a 50,000 mile original EH Auto Wagon . I have spoken to my engineer and a 4L Toyota V8 is just passable if done right and I just love the engineering side of these builds (even though this will be probably the most challenging).

I am not trying to insult any Bellett purist I have an original 67 sedan, but I just like to build something different and to build a wild Bellett GT will be an awesome experience and I just love the shape of the car.

Thanks again for your feedback I'll take it all on board and everybody has different ideas.

[mrflibbles]

theres a wasp with a v6 in it, not sure what has been done to that? maybe the owner has some info?

[redback]

Go for it Jeff - I am all for it.

Neil

[BULLITT]

hi jeff pr95 has the wasp with the v6 in it ..ask him great looking car

[PR95]

The Wasp has a Chasis,

[Glenn]

I think there is a thread with some words on V8's into Bellett here somewhere.
If i recall correctly, the width between the rails and inner guards is too narrow for most of the wide angled common V8's. I think also one of the small capacity Ford V8's has been measured up to fit but be very tight.

Major fabrication work would be required to re-engineer the engine bay and probably trans tunnel. Engineers time and cost on a one off project would be horrendous. Personally I think a better conversion would be a 4 cyl late model turbo of around 2 litres. Even a late 2 litre EFI engine will have way more torque than a Bellett engine and I prefer torquey engines to outright horsepower (developed at a non street-able high rpm) A Bellett is very light so the end result would be much sweeter than having a V8 up front.

Many years ago i seriously looked at putting the whole floor pan and suspension from a Gemini into a Bellett. The Gemini floor pan is about 20mm wider at the sills from memory. I did a lot of measuring and figured it was feasible, albeit with a lot of work. These days though, finding a non rusted out Gemini floor pan would be next to impossible!

glenn

[Teditor]

I was always interested in fitting a Pencil Head Buick V8 as they are relatively narrow and all aluminium, meaning that they are no heavier (or not much) than the Bellett motor.

They were the basis of the Traco Oldsmobile (The difference between the Olds and Buick being the narrow vertical heads).

I recall a Chev V8 powered Bellett at Amaroo Park once, plenty of straight line go, but couldn't turn, we were much quicker in our 4 cylinder Isuzu powered Belletts.

[1968GT]

Hey Guys, what about the Volvo V8, it is narrow???
That wouldn't mean you had wear a hat!!

[degruch]

I recall a Chev V8 powered Bellett at Amaroo Park once, plenty of straight line go, but couldn't turn, we were much quicker in our 4 cylinder Isuzu powered Belletts.

That's what I suspect the result will be...it'll look good, sound great, but you could end up on your roof at the first roundabout.

[Jeff]

I have the perfect hat for the Volvo engine!!

This is why I am chasing a GT that it doesn't matter if you cut the front off it and build a new set of chassis rails and custom front end to fit the V8, it will probably sit back in the car a bit to reduce some weight off the front suspension and then build new inner guards to suit once the headers have been done along with a new floor, rear end and bigger wheel tubs. I am even considering a modern dash assembly out of a later car.

I would advise anyone to look at some of the work being done by a company in the State's call The Roadster Shop and what they fit in tight engine bays. There work is just amazing and really gets you thinking of all the possibilities for any car not just the Bellett. www.roadstershop.com. I have seen car worse than Matt's GT turned into works of art that are just amazing.

I have no illusions that this is not going to be an easy task the Toyota V8 is smaller than an LS1 and I have seen one of them fitted with limited body mods to a KE30 Corolla sedan and in stock form this thing will scare the pant off you, well built and engineered.

I like the discussion about this as everyone has there own perspective of

[mrflibbles]

I like the idea, and the fact that you don't want to cut up a good one! as long as it doesn't look like a hacked about sports sedan I think it will be fine!

[Farmer]

Well, this whole idea certainly has me intrigued. I look at that poor sorry rusty shell and think, that is a shame. It was pretty much this bad when I got it, and it has provided rare spares for a few more cars.
I admit that I have daydreamed about what could be done, but all the thoughts have the same result: That would use a LOT of time and money.
But people do build Street Machines, and they bring them to Summernats and people flock there and are awestruck.

If a bloke was chasing performance, then its easy. People back in the day made them go fast by fitting.....(I won't upset Brett by saying the 'rotary' word) ...small high performance free revving engines. There are turbo 1200 direct injection motors with double or tripple the output of Bellett motors. You could even use a tiny diesel to make a lightweight torque monster.
But a Street Machine is not that. It is an over the top V8 tubbed out tyre fryer. It doesnt have to go around corners, except by a slant of the front wheels and bagged up rear trailing around. Heavy over the front is a help here. If they can put a V8 in a Niki, they can put one in a Bellett!
So what would you need? A Wasp chassis is rare, but a KB or early Rodeo chassis is cheap. They have torsion bars up front, allowing a wide U-tubbed engine bay. They are adjustable and made to carry a tonne, so you could fit any motor. The rear is a simple live axle, and is strong, but if George can chop down a Commodore axle to get the lsd & discs, then so can you. With a Chassis, the body doesn't have to be load bearing, so fabricate a floor with the needed custom trans tunnel. Graft on the reinforced rusty shell, then either form up a roof from fibreglass like a canoe, or have a hood made and have a convertible. (There is a precident here.)

Qualification: I have zero experience. But in my imagination, its just beautiful!

Whatever you do, the future for one old GT shell has a faint glimmer now!
Cheers, Matt.

[Glenn]

If the GT is so far gone that extensive work is needed on the body, I would assume the engineer would want to see it bought back to good condition before entertaining and engineering a V8 conversion, which then means you then have a 'good' GT anyway ? Assuming the intent is to get it back on the road, not a track etc car.

While I love the idea of sleeper Bellett's, and going v8 would be a first, with a lot of wow factor thrown in, I still think a late model 4 cyl turbo would be the way to go. Way less hassles all round in my view.
These conversions involving engineers, can get way out of hand re cost. And you may end up with a GT worth less than one in more or less original condition anyway.

[Asroc66]

It's all about the building right?
J

[Jeff]

It is all about the build Asroc66.

I have even looked at the 350Z motor as part of the conversion but that is even bigger than the V8.

I really like this debate over what to do but the main issue was to try and save a rusted Bellett GT and set something up that was totally different from the norm. I have an excellent relationship with my engineer with the EJ and have had many conversations on what can and can't be done, it just got to be done right so really anything is possible today if you have the time especially and the money.

Also no-one has answered my original question about strengthening the front end.

Thanks
Jeff

[Asroc66]

My neighbour is an Escort nut
He has 3 and just bought one with a race prepared v6 Capri motor and gearbox.
Another alternative
Let me know if interested.... He has people sniffing around for it
Cheers
J